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Watch: Envisioning Your Social Legacy: A Conversation with Emily Chang

A Conversation with Emily Chang

Watch our conversation with Emily Chang, author of “The Spare Room,” as we explore how to build lives of intention, connection, and generosity. Drawing on personal narrative and cross-cultural insight, Chang invites us to imagine what it means to create a “social legacy”—a life shaped not only by professional success, but by the way we show up for others.

The University of Chicago Leadership and Society Initiative

The University of Chicago Leadership and Society Initiative (LSI) supports accomplished leaders in successfully transitioning from their longstanding careers toward purposeful next chapters. LSI Fellows immerse themselves in UChicago’s unparalleled environment of big ideas and multigenerational dialogue, gaining frameworks for learning from their past and planning for their futures. 

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Video Transcript:


Seth Green: Today we are joined by Emily Chang. She is a seasoned executive who has worked at some of the world’s most renowned companies, and her remarkable career has spanned multiple industries and continents. And I’ll just name a few of your extraordinary achievements, Emily, you shaped Apple’s presence in China, you oversaw marketing transformation at Starbucks. You transformed a 450 member team as CEO of Mccann World Group and are now finishing a tenure as CEO of Vml. West, and alongside all of that you have been an author of a really powerful book which I see in the background. There is a spare room. And so we’re going to be talking with you about the concept of social legacy and beyond. But before we jump in, I’m curious if you can share a little bit about key moments in your professional career that have shaped you as a leader because I know what we’re going to talk about are values that have come out of much of that experience and informed it, and so wanted to start with background. And then we’ll jump into how you’ve approached social legacy in particular.


Emily Chang: Sounds good, Seth. Thanks again for having me. With your 1st question, 2 answers come to mind. Kind of 2 different perspectives, or different takes on the question. The 1st one is, I think there’s some degree of luck where people believed in me and saw something in me. I’ll tell you when I first graduated from my Mba, I was recruited by Procter and Gamble and it was into corporate finance because my Mba was in finance and competitive strategy. And there’s this wonderful woman named Paris Watts Stanfield, who was my final interviewer, and she said, Look, you can have this job. You can certainly do it. But I wonder if you might be interested in brand management. You have an entrepreneurial spirit. It meant that she would have to go home without an intern, but she was willing to lean into me and give me a new opportunity to transition, kind of decline her offer and go apply for a brand management role, and because of her I still stay in touch with her. Today I ended up in brand management and was at P. And G. For 11 years. I remember being at Apple and looking after Asia Pacific and getting a call from Intercontinental Hotels Group, and as I met the CEO, it was my 1st C-suite job. I said. I’m not. I’m not sure you have the right person. He was looking for a chief commercial officer looking after a team of over 5,000, and I thought my last team was like 35. Are you? Are you sure I’ve never run a call center? I’ve never run loyalty programs. There were so many things I’d never done. But, he said, I see potential because Apple was so high visibility at that point in Asia. If you can do that, I’ll teach you the rest. So I think there’s a combination of people who saw something in me and leaned in, and I leaned in as well, because there are interesting roles that might seem scary. And there may be things that seem, you know, sort of bigger than what we’re ready for. But if people are willing to believe in you, then I think we owe ourselves the opportunity to believe in ourselves equally. I think the second piece is kind of tied to that idea, which is, I think, we grow through friction through moments. So the second thing that passed through my head as you’re asking the question is, you know, it’s the toughest people. There was a boss who wasn’t a particularly nice person, and was really rough, abusive with people. But frankly, I learned so much in that time, because when you’re, you know, 11 years at P. And GP. And G. Is a very good Miss Western Company, and they have very standard operating procedures, and how they treat people and how they can go along in your career and never come across something so challenging, which also means you’re not growing exponentially. You know, with that last thought, there’s so many ways now that we can live a totally frictionless life. Right? We can have contactless delivery, we can have contactless pain. We can. I saw a statistic the other day that said something. 33% of the youngest generation now doesn’t have any real friends. They are sorry. Not. That’s not the right phrase. They only have online friends, so they’re absolutely real, but they only have friends online. And to me, that’s certainly real friendship. But there’s a lot of friction that happens in humanity like the messy, you know, sort of humans interacting with each other and pissing each other off and learning from each other that, I think, are really important for us to develop.


Seth Green: And so let me just build on that before we come to social legacy, Emily, because you describe people investing in you, seeing potential in you that you then came to realize, and you describe the resilience and the value of friction as a learning tool. How do you think that those shaped your curiosity and values that we’re going to ultimately talk about in the social Legacy. How did those shape who you are in a way that then comes to inform this purpose that you described so beautifully in your book.


Emily Chang: If I even take a step further back. I’m the child of immigrants. I think I grew up, you know, in the seventies, with a requirement for resilience and grit. We were what some people might remember were called latchkey kids. We were sort of on our own. After school we had a little key around our neck. Let ourselves in a lot of the things that we did back then really aren’t. I don’t think it’s legal anymore. But you have to figure things out on your own, and there weren’t cell phones. So if something went wrong, you had to figure out how to solve the problem. I remember, you know, like the fire alarm going off because I overcooked something. I think those tough moments are the moments that teach you. I’m more capable, maybe, than I thought, and I think it allows you, if things don’t go horribly wrong to lean forward a little bit more, a little bit more readily the next time, because you think, okay, I learned from that. And you know, in the workplace. To your question specifically, you go through one tough experience. Your world doesn’t end. You know. I posted recently on Tiktok. I have this little black journal called the Calamity Journal. It’s a little dramatic, but I started it when I was at Procter and Gamble, where what felt like a calamity happened at work. And so I wrote in it, because I’m not really one of those people who journals day by day, though I think it’s wonderful if you can. And what I realized over time is when the sort of calamity was over, I would look back and write what happened. And over time, what you start realizing. And I think this is the value of journaling, or just really any retrospect you start realizing there’s a pattern when something that feels really terrible happens, and you pause, and then you look backwards, you find unexpected ways that you grew, you find unexpected sources of help and then what you realize is moving forward. That’s what starts shaping you. It starts deepening that resilience, and it gives you more of a heart to help people around you, because that’s exactly how you were able to develop yourself.


Seth Green: Well, so we are not just talking with you because you have had an extraordinarily accomplished career, but also because you’ve decided alongside that career to really live your purpose, and in your case some people almost think of it. In 2 mountains you’ve been climbing in parallel. You’ve had this really meaningful career. And you’ve also been developing this social legacy from what is an early time in your career. And you’ve been doing so in what you describe in the book at the intersection of the offer, and I’d love you to talk a little bit more about that idea of an offer and what we’re uniquely positioned to do, and the offense this issue in society that you are offended by, and that you want to try to address or resolve. Can you talk a little bit about your personal journey that led you to discover this framework and kind of how you’ve come to make that core to your purpose.


Emily Chang: Absolutely so. What I call social legacy is the intersection of 2 things, your offer and your offense. So your offer is that unique bundle of your capabilities, your personality, your experiences, and the offense is sort of the thing in the world. Amongst all the things that you would like to be better at, that really speaks to you and sort of stops you in your tracks and makes you want to do something about it. I didn’t meaningfully or intentionally lean into a social legacy, but sort of lived it well before I realized that this was a framework that really sort of serves me and helps me capture the way I want to live. I was only 20 years old, and I happened to drive in upstate New York by a girl who was sitting by the side of the street. It turns out I learned much later that she had run away from home. She ended up homeless. She was 14 years old. She was selling her body for food, and she ended up moving in with me because I could not stand to let her go back out there in the cold as we found her, a longer term solution. She introduced somebody else she had met in the street, and she said, Could you take her in, and then over time, whether it was in Arkansas with a child bride or in China with the daughter of a prostitute or a Korean boy who’d been swindled out of his last dollar by a real estate fraudster. We’ve had 17 kids in our spare room over the last 2 decades. How did I discover this idea because I’m not a fast learner, you know. It kind of just started happening over and over, and 17 times sounds a little bit strange especially since we’ve never been registered as a foster family, but what I would say is, if you start leaning into a need, and you just sort of say yes, just like my answer to your 1st question. If you just say yes. If something comes along, you will find things sort of come along in a kind of flow that almost doesn’t make logical sense. And when I started putting together this book, I was thinking more like the moth, an anthology of stories about a spare room, and then I was invited to do a Tedx talk, which I highly recommend, because what they and they say, What is your idea worth sharing, and the spare room is not worth sharing. That’s just stories from my spare room. But what I realized was the deeper idea worth sharing that everybody hopefully can relate to on some level is this social legacy idea? Maybe people know their offer but don’t know where to point it. Or maybe people know the thing that offends them, but they say, What can I do? I’m just one person. So the book not only has stories of myself and 15 other people, but it also kind of has these self effective exercises that help you think through. How do I define my own offer? How do I define my own offense, and I’d be curious for people here, maybe even in the chat. How many of you feel like, yeah, I know the offer, but not the offense, or I know my offense, but I don’t know what I offer. And then maybe some of you say I know both of them, and actually, I’m very clear on my social legacy. I think everyone’s on a journey, and I’m still on my own journey. But because of that, I’d say Ted talks. It gave me a chance to really think more deeply about what is my idea worth sharing? And how do I want to create a framework that other people can maybe understand at whatever level, wherever they are.


Seth Green: And can you talk a little bit more about how you see the spare room as an example of your offer and the offense? Because when we look at your background, Emily, you’re incredibly accomplished. You’ve done so in an entrepreneurial mode, and really understanding the private sector and product market fit, and all of these. You know, complex business ideas, and yet your offer on the face of it is, you know, a room for people that might not have one. I know it’s much deeper than that. But can you talk a little bit about how you now think about that offer, and how you kind of conceptualize what that offer really entails, and I know it’s much more than the room. The room is an entry point to mentorship involvement in life. But I’d love you to share that. And then also, if you could describe why that offense and you know why that issue related to kind of disconnection, homelessness. Why, that matters to you, if you want to just talk about both sides of that for you as an example or role model for how someone might think about this issue.


Emily Chang: I’ve met a lot of people whose social legacy fundamentally is integrated with their day job. And there’s some stories in the book like the 1st Asian American who had a lead role in a Cirque du Soleil show. She was in the lead role of Kuza for a decade, and then was so stunned by something that had happened near her parents. Home, she asked herself, what am I using my voice for? And completely pivoted? You know. I think that is absolutely one route, and that has not been it for me. For me it was one kid after the other, as more and more kids came into my home, we started more and more readily, saying yes to whoever needed a safe place similar to the answer for your 1st question. The more you say yes, and the more good things happen, the more willing you are to say yes. The next time it was actually a day where I was kind of being a bitch at work. If I’m honest. I was the chief commercial officer at Intercontinental Hotels Group, and I had a Guy pitching me his agency, and I was really kind of irate because I was not looking for another agency, and I felt I had already given him my time. And he said, Okay, okay, I got it. I’m not. I’m not going to be your agency. And then he looked around the corner and he saw this one wall filled with kids. And he said, Are these all your children? And I started to explain to him these kids and the one who is living in my home right now. And he said with all due respect, do you know, you just changed completely as a human being, you just became a very pleasant person, and I thought there’s no reason I shouldn’t be pleasant all the time, just because I don’t need an agency doesn’t mean I need to wear this tough exterior at work. And I think that day his name is Will he really kind of put the truth in my face and made me realize. Yeah, I need to be a lot more congruent in who I am. Because if my offer is this combination of you know, when you go through the exercises, which, of course, I did on my own. Of course it’s a spare room. It’s hospitality, it’s loving to host people. Why am I not treating him with loving hospitality? You know I literally worked in a hospitality company at that time. It talks about your professional skills. Maybe not the sexiest thing. I’m good at taking complex things and distilling them to the simplest, which maybe goes back to why challenging things maybe can be broken into bite-sized things. For me. Personally, I think those are ways that I started to identify. Wow! These are all the different things that I offer, and it’s not just me individually. If you happen to live with a family, and you embark on adventures like this, you need to make sure everybody’s on board. So all of us sitting down together and defining, what is it that we really offer? It is more than a room. It’s more than a sense of hospitality. It’s ultimately what I defined as my social legacy was a word given to me by one of our spare room kids. It is Kiboon. So he was a South Korean boy. and one day he said, your house is good, Kiboon, and that is roughly translated to comfort for the spirit. I thought that was such a lovely idea. When you are in my home you feel a comfort for your spirit. I would marry that sort of revelation with that horrible day with Will when I was just not being a nice person and thinking, no, that that’s exactly what I want to offer anytime. I’m with somebody wherever I am at home, at work in the grocery aisle. I want it to be kaboo, and I want people to feel a comfort for the spirit, and that really then started affecting the way that I lead at work and it also helped me accelerate in my own career, because I think I started better defining the kind of leader that I want to become.


Seth Green: Well, so you just described kind of your journey, and I know that your book and you know your leadership in different forums has been about helping others figure out their social legacy and their journey, and we believe at the university. The best place to start is with the right questions. Can you talk about some of the questions that you often ask people to think about when they’re trying to define how they could develop a social legacy?


Emily Chang: I love that in the book. I kind of sprinkle these little provocations throughout. So I’ll think of maybe 3, each one starting differently. One. I think people ask this quite often, but I’ll say it because I think it’s a great question. How will you be remembered after you move on right? You go through an exercise of writing your epitaph. It’s whether you move on at the end of life or at the end of any particular job, or at the end of any key chapter in your life. What’s the thing you want people to say about you? And then how do you intentionally live and behave against that desired outcome. I think it could become very distilling. The second one. I remember this question on the side I really, I remember my publisher is like, Are you sure you want to ask this one? But I really like it. The question is, what if there were no coincidences, right? And the reason is, I was at a salon, and you know all the women kind of sit around in their black capes, and we heard the front desk girl crying because she was another child bride and her adult husband had kicked her out of the home, and she had nowhere to live. So, because I was listening to her as I was checking out and paying my bill. I just asked her, where are you going to stay tonight? She said, I don’t know. So I brought her home. So what if there were no coincidences? What if somebody who tripped in front of my house in Arkansas as we were stretching after a hike, turned out to be a girl who’d been kicked out of her home and was not in a good situation. She came into our home. So all the little moments where you might feel a pull, or something might have happened that just seems a little bit odd instead of oh, it’s a coincidence, or that’s a fluke. What if there were no coincidences? And I think that leads to the 3rd one? Why am I feeling this pull? You know that 1st girl I was at University of Rochester. I was still in school myself, and this little huddled form outside my window really caught my attention, and I would have continued driving. It was sleeting upstate. New York is terrible in the winter for anyone who’s been there, and I know Chicago’s no walk in the park in the winter, either, but it was just terrible weather. It was late at night. I was exhausted. It was only because the light was a particularly long red light that I looked again, and I realized that the huddled shape was really small, and then I entered my window and asked if she needed help. Then, after that I started to get a little bit more intelligent, when something caught my attention. When I paused, I would then ask myself, why am I feeling this pull? Is there something that I can do? And then going back to the 1st question, How does this feed into the way that I would like to be remembered. So I think you know, I shared my terrible experience. Treating Will not nicely. I think I was talking about this phrase with somebody. The other day I was saying, I want to shed that terrible monster. I think we’ve all been at our worst selves. We don’t like to admit it, especially as executives, but I think it’s important to, because when you can face your worst behavior, you can share and make those teachable moments. And then that’s when you can really move beyond that and say, Okay, I’ve chosen to be a better person, and I’ve chosen to behave differently.


Seth Green: So I have one more question. Then we want to come to questions from the group here. So please start chatting with them. I want to talk about how your social legacy has changed you and you’ve already described that a bit in terms of how you now bring your you know best, and this comfort for the spirit with you in all domains. But maybe talk a little bit more about, you know, if you feel like it has shaped your own wellness and enrichment in life, and then, maybe how it’s shaped you as a leader. Because I think when we hear these examples it sounds immediately like you are doing amazing things for others, and that is absolutely true. You are. But my sense is that this has enriched your life, and one of the things we talk a lot about in LSI is that as you build the next chapter for many, you know, it is about you and society, and the 2 are intertwined, and that when you contribute to something greater, you find a great deal of kind of psychic value out of that a different type of satisfaction than you may get. I mean, you know, to your point about the epitaph. It gives you a sense that you’re contributing to something meaningful, which is a very different sort of joy than maybe hedonic joy, or some of the other forms. And so just curious, if you could talk a little bit about what this has meant to you, both as a person and as a leader.


Emily Chang: I think. Let me start with the leader. It’s transformed the way that I lead, I think, you know, growing up in an operational company like Procter and Gamble. Going to Apple especially, I joined when it was still sort of the era of Steve Jobs. You learn to run an organization. I’m also finance minded, and my undergrad was in science. And so, you know, I kind of approach things with a lot of discipline. You give me a Kpi. I will run it down. But I think, you know, after I started coming into more of an understanding of the kind of leader I want to become, it became different. And also, I think this is required for people to be successful at a senior level. You can’t be the one running it down. You get things done through people and so I think it was also very timely, because I chose to be a different kind of people leader, and I was still learning this. I still remember other terrible monster moments, where I didn’t treat people with as much respect or time or patience as I should have over time as a leader. I’ve now come to a place, and this is why I accepted my 1st CEO job running an agency, and I’ve been doing it now for over 5 years because with an agency you don’t have a product you’re selling. There’s no R. And D, there’s no supply chain. It’s literally just a group of people. So if you can lead well, if you can draw followership you will be successful if you can’t. And we’ll see this a lot in the market tomorrow. There’s no agency at all. So it’s really become a great litmus test for leadership itself. And it’s something I’m very grateful for because it really helped me create a sandbox where I could learn and sort of practice best practices as a leader, and then as a human. It’s definitely made me equally better. You know, I could talk about shedding this terrible monster now. I don’t even think I would have used that language 5 years ago. At this point I want to share all my faults. I want to share those worst moments, you know, because I think when somebody does. It gives you permission to acknowledge. When you were at your worst, we’ve all had terrible moments. We’ve all treated people less than and well, maybe not all. But I think generally. And I think if we can recognize and kind of be like that, that’s okay. I think about Brene Brown, and how she introduced the word vulnerability into our vocabulary. I don’t think people overly talked about being vulnerable in the workplace before she introduced it and made it. Okay. I’m kind of thinking, you know. It’d be great if the spare room concept allowed people not only to aspire toward a social legacy, but acknowledge moments when they weren’t living as strongly into their true potential.


Seth Green: Well, so we have our 1st question in the chat, which is, what advice would you give someone who is feeling a little bit lost in their career or sense of purpose.


Emily Chang: I think that’s the best question you can ask is answering it and finding ways, you know. That’s why I kind of put these exercises. I’m not here to sell a book into the book, or whether it is, you know, reading daring greatly, or looking into whatever model works for you. I think it’s important to define. What am I living for? You know? What do I want to be remembered for when I’m gone one day and then that can direct. I think the sense of purpose to me is more important than the career. Because if you feel like you’re living into your purpose, that may coincide with the choices you want to make about your job. I would take one other more practical step, which is, write down everything that you love to do, write down the context in which you thrive. I was just having this conversation with my daughter, and then later, with somebody sparingly executive coach with a Vp. At a very big company, and it was almost the same conversation, because the question is, I don’t know what I want to do with my career next. And my daughter was saying, I don’t know what I want to major in well, to both, and I think sort of at every step of our career. Maybe the question is not, what’s the title? Maybe it’s not. What’s the job, you know. What do headhunters ask you? What region, what industry? Maybe you focus on? What do I love to do? What kind of work allows me to wake up motivated, and I feel like I’m thriving, and the day is done before I can even blink because I had so much fun. And I was so engaged. If we can define that context, then I think that helps us get closer to our purpose. And concurrently, it helps us start defining the type of role that maybe we want to move toward.


Seth Green: So let’s say that you do kind of have that vision over time. We have another question in the chat about how do you build and really get toward that vision. And in your case, you know, you have this iterative experience from you know you’re 20 years old, and you pick up this person, and you understand their life and kind of go into this. And it’s almost you describe yourself as entrepreneurial, an entrepreneurial approach to building your social legacy where. You know. In some ways there are coincidences. And then through that in life you’re kind of embracing them, learning from them and building, you know? What do you suggest for others? They approach that? And is iteration in your imagination and almost experimentation? Obviously with kindness and compassion for those who are around you. So you’re not, you know, harming people in that experimentation. But is that part of the journey in your imagination? For how you move from that vision toward a reality of having that purpose.


Emily Chang: Yeah, I’d say there are 2 words that came to mind as I was thinking about this question. One is competency, I think trust is earned when we are competent. If we can demonstrate that we are good at our job, and that we have an understanding of their job, that competency goes a long way, and the second word is also a C, which is consistency. If we are consistently competent, if we are consistent as leaders, I think it’s very easy to start building this trust, and then it disappears overnight. If we’re inconsistent, if we just have one temper tantrum, if we just throw our toys out of the pram suddenly all that trust is gone. So it’s really important to be consistent, and then to be confident in all that we do, you know, and I don’t say confidence lightly. There’s this wonderful book. It was written by an astronaut, and he talks about how that is like the most important thing that an astronaut would aspire to is competency because you cannot be competent in such a critical role. It also made me think about this other book by Jocko Willink, which is extreme ownership. And I love this book, too. It’s this idea that it’s always your responsibility. When you get to, especially CEO level. Everything’s your responsibility. Everything is your fault, and I think one of the ways that you can start earning trust is when you operate with that mindset, and that’s part of confidence is, whatever happens, you are responsible. The nicest compliment somebody gave me is something that I still think about and try to live up to, she said. You’re a 3 dimensional leader and what she meant by that is you stand in front and kind of break down barriers when we need to. You will roll up your sleeves and work alongside us when we need your help, and then you’ll stand behind us and push us into the spotlight when we need that push. I think a leader who only stands in the front, who takes the glory for themselves, or who, you know, let’s say, a different kind of leader who only works alongside and doesn’t know that sometimes you need to stand in front and be visible, or who only stands behind and pushes everyone else into the spotlight, but they never stand in front themselves. All these types of leaders exist. We can probably think about people who are fitting into each of those profiles, but being able to be in front and be behind and roll up your sleeves and work alongside, I think, goes a long way toward that competency and Building Trust.


Seth Green: We have another question in the chat about times when you may have made an offer, and then regretted it, or maybe another way to say it is learned from it, and would do it differently. Can you talk a little bit about those moments, and how they may have shaped you.


Emily Chang: I have never regretted it. There have been really difficult, challenging times. But again, I really think when you look back, those are the moments where you grew the most and where my family grew the most. It’s interesting. My daughter, again, is starting to think about college essays, and she was talking about one of the most recent kids we’ve had. Her name is Lotus. She is the daughter of a pimp and one of his prostitutes. So she grew up, not only in a brothel, but sharing a room with her mother where her mom did her job. It was an absolutely horrible place for her to grow up and so when she came to our home, she brought a lot of not great behaviors. She brought some really poor hygiene into our home. You might say. You know, there were times. I kind of thought we’ve got to stop this. This is the one time we’re going to have to cut it off early, but I’m so grateful we didn’t, because those are the moments where we grew the most. I realized again. Terrible monster. I had some really really low points, not managing her well because of assumptions. You know, I was yelling at her because I asked her to take showers, and she just wasn’t improving the hygiene situation, and finally, I realized I’d never taught her how to use shampoo and conditioner, and she’d never been in a shower before. So shame on me for not recognizing kind of having enough empathy to step into her shoes before I yelled at her. You know, I think these are all places where I’m so grateful. We made the offer. It wasn’t easy, but it taught me a lot more about empathy, and really thinking about things from another person’s point of view, and you know also how we were able to impact her life. Your earlier comments gave us unbelievable joy. I mean, that’s an abiding kind of joy, not like a momentary up and down happiness, but knowing you have helped somebody’s life move on to a better track. There’s nothing better.


Seth Green: Well, we are at time. This has been an inspirational conversation, Emily, thank you for what you’ve done with your life, and for the meaning. It’s given to you, and I’ll just close by saying David Brooks has a column that he writes, and he also is a wonderful faculty member of LSI. And one of the things that he’s talked about because he sent out to readers. This question about regrets is that he found people overwhelmingly regretted when they didn’t take action. Many people took actions, and then they learned from them, and it didn’t work out the way that they had hoped. But then very few of them ever regretted the action they took, even when it didn’t work out, because they’ll say I learned something from it. I figured out this wasn’t possible, and a lot of people did regret it when they didn’t take action at that moment, including when they didn’t take an action of compassion. Because they saw a family member or a friend, or someone else in a moment of need, and, you know, kind of just continued on with their life in a way that was not, you know, fully tuned into that. And so I was always struck by the fact that regret was always about inaction. People took action. It didn’t work out the way they wanted. It didn’t fulfill their goal, but they rarely regretted it, and I thought that was a very interesting observation, maybe, about human nature that, you know, we we tend to learn from the experiences that don’t work, but we can often regret being silent or inactive in a moment where we’re called on. So that’s a striking example in your case, obviously, of how that’s impacted you. Any final remarks before we close.


Emily Chang: No, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for the important topic that you put at the forefront, Seth. I’m delighted to be a part of it, and happy to continue the conversation.

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